If god is good, then why all of the evil in the world? Conclusion

If god is good, then why all of the evil in the world?
With my research i found that i agree with both St. Augustine and Kierkegaard. I think that there should be an explanation for evil in the world but also that by god giving us free will, it proves that he is really good.
It was difficult to question my faith but i think it really did aid in my understanding of both why there is evil in the world as well as realize that i can question my faith without it being bad. It actually made me feel a little bit better about my understanding of the topic.
I think that broadening my understanding of multiple topics is what this Philosophy course has done for me. While i am not usually the first one to speak in front of the class, i listen to the different views of the others in the class and from Professor Oliver and it has really aided in opening my mind to different possibilities as well as broaden my perspective.
Thank you Professor Oliver for the great semester and i hope you like my presentation :)

Leibnez- The Problem of Evil (or The Problem of God?)

I just read an article about Leibniz and his beliefs about god and the Problem of Evil. I found it in the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy and am confused by his beliefs.
I read that he believed in two different possible philosophies.
1. "The Underachiever Problem"
2. "The Holiness Problem"

The underachiever problem entails that the fact that there is evil in the world shows that god cannot be all that he is made out to be. God must not be all powerful or all knowing, in now way he is omnipotent. It seems that this belief states that god messed up when he was creating the world and that he cannot know everything because he did not know what he was doing. He was an "underachiever" and that he did not think things through.
I disagree strongly with this belief. If god was not omnipotent and did not know everything than I do not even think that the world, rather, the universe would even be here currently. The being that created the universe would have to be all knowing or it would be unable to create such a vast and intricate system. It is honestly insulting that this theory is even in existence, but i cannot let my bias get the best of my judgement. I just do not believe that it would even be possible for an "underachieving" god to create such a universe such as the one that we are (hopefully :D) currently living in.

The Holiness Problem indicates that because of god's "intimate causal entanglement" of the world-makes him evil. It goes on to state that he is the source of evil. (Again putting my bias aside) In the christian tradition the devil is evil, but! he was a fallen angel that was in heaven with god. So god created him. (?) If god knew that he was creating evil, then why did he do it? The weird part is that i can agree with this theory more than i can with the other; even though it could be seen as more offensive than the last.
I can understand where this theory came from and i am not sure how to refute it.
The only possible way that i could refute it is by the explanation of God giving us free will, but honestly I am not sure if it can adequately respond to the argument.

Kierkegaard Perspective

Kierkegaard enlightened me. I read an excerpt about his beliefs of god when it came to evil. It was surprisingly clear and precise and helped me understand a different view.

"The whole question of God’s omnipotence and goodness and its relation to evil (instead of the distinction that God works good and only permits evil) can perhaps be explained quite simply in this manner.

1. The greatest act that can be performed by any being, greater even than any end to which it can be created, is to make it free.  In order to be able to do that, omnipotence is necessary…
2. God’s omnipotence is therefore His goodness.  For goodness means to give absolutely, yet in such a way that by taking oneself back one makes the recipient independent.
3. From finite power comes only dependence, and omnipotence alone can make something independent, can create something out of nothing which endures for itself, because omnipotence is always taking itself back…."

This outlook made  lot of sense to me. I like his perspective and while it does state that God gives us independence because of his omnipotence it does not address why there is evil in the world. I do respect and even somewhat agree with Kierkegaard though because he is stating, and explaining why, god is good; not evil. But again why is there evil?

I have already concluded that the opportunity for evil to manifest is because god gave humans free will, but why cant he just not let the bad things happen?
Even writing this I guess I have to admit that I know the answer.
If his purpose was for humans to have complete free will then he cant make that situational (well he can but he shouldn't). When it comes to humans I understand that we must, unfortunately have the "right" to be evil. But I must say that I don't like it. I wish there was another way for us to have free will and yet have the world be evil-free.

Correction!

In my last post I typed that St. Augustine believed that God must be part evil because of all of the evil in the world, But! I misinterpreted my information. St. Augustine did not believe that god must be both good and evil, he believed that there must be an explanation for the evil in the world and if there was not than we must assume that god must be part evil.

When I read this my initial thought was thank god because it was really hard for me to question whether the god that I grew up knowing was really part evil. I do think it was a good exercise though. The misinterpretation led me to question a belief that I hold very close to me and it was good to do so.

I do agree with St. Augustine (now that I actually know what he believed :D). I think that there should be an explanation for evil because it leaves a lot of room for misinterpretation and unanswered questions.

But! Aren't unanswered questions a part of Christianity? I was brought up to  believe that some of the questions that I do not have answers to was just something that people were never supposed to know about or figure out. I was taught that god was all-knowing and that I would never have all of the answers to some of the questions I asked because I just had to have faith in my god. But honestly that is very difficult, especially as a child where all I did was ask questions. It was hard for me as I grew up to just stifle my questions and answer them with faith.

St. Thomas has a great quote that encompasses my beliefs:

"Since God possesses Being in its entire perfection, it follows that He is able to communicate it to others, giving His creatures the power to act self-existently."

So if god has ultimate power, as is believed, and he is perfection, as is mostly believed, then he is good enough to give us the power to make our own decisions. This is how there is evil in the world; we decide whether or not to be good or evil.

BUT! God created us in his image so does that mean that he can be evil too?

I would like to think that he would never be evil, but why do bad and "evil" things happen?

I previously have argued that if there wasn't bad in the world than we could not appreciate the good. I still believe this but I have seen bad and appreciate the good, now can we make it stop?

 

St. Thomas also stated that:

“The nearer a creature is by nature to God, the less it is determined by Him, and to that greater degree does God allow the creature to determine itself.”

 

So St. Thomas is saying that we have the option to “determine” ourselves. So can we “determine” to stop the evil in the world. Food for thought.

If god is good, then why all of the evil in the world?

I have struggled with this one personally. If god is good, then why all of the evil in the world? I am a Christian and have always been taught that god is good and he is the great protector and nurturer. I never questioned it until my freshmen philosophy class and honestly I was a little stumped. I did not have an answer and that bothered me. When it came to matters of god I usually knew every answer and if I did not I knew someone who did but this question I had to struggle with on my own. I always will defend my god with no hesitation but I realized in this class that I need to be able to question my god and it still be ok. I need to question whether he exists or whether there is really good in the world, or evil, or even if there is a heaven or hell. I think that it is ok to question god now, which is a huge step, and the biggest question really is, If god is good, then why all of the evil in the world?

The Boston bombing really affected me and I just don't know how to deal with the loss. I don't know why this had to happen. I have heard about numerous terrorist attacks and horrible things that occur right under my nose but the Boston Marathon bombing really just made me realize what evil there is in the world.

My initial reaction was complete shock, which turned into a flood of questions. Why them? Why did the bombers do this? What did they gain from murdering innocent people?

The philosopher St. Augustine believed something very different than my own ideals. He was a pagan but later converted to Christianity where he believed that since there was evil in the world as well as good, and since god is the creator, god must be evil too.

I disagree whole-heartedly. Although I respect St. Augustine I just cannot imagine that any part of god is evil. I was brought up to believe that there is god, which is love, and the devil, which is hate. Good and evil in my mind could not be two of the same or even similar things, especially if it came to my god.

But, there is good and bad in all people, so why cant there be a good and bad god?

I have to question, but honestly I must confess that it is incredibly difficult to even type this. It is difficult to question the very basis of everything that you have firmly believed.

Can there be a good and evil god? And if so then is that why there is evil in the world.

If you really think about these questions than St. Augustine could be right. It goes against the modern interpretation of god but if god truly does exist than you have to push aside the bias and the portrayal of god that most Christian people have been exposed to and open your mind to new ideas.

People are good :)

Throughout this project i wasn't sure whether i thought that people were inherently good or evil. I wrote a few different posts and got some messages and comments both on here and on Facebook that really helped me make my decision so here it is....

People are generally inherently good. I do believe that people need to, at some point in their life, have the opportunity to choose one side or the other. I still know that there is evil out there and when pushed either by environment or outside sources people will do things for themselves and for their family's. Yes evil is out there, but i think it's pretty safe to say that good people far outweigh the evil.

Thank you all for your input on my blog and I am fully willing to continue it....Hope you like it Dr. Oliver! :)

 

Quotes...Quotes...Quotes Quotes Quotes

"There is no good and evil, there is only power and those too weak to seek it."

 - J.K. Rowling Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone

 



 

Would like anyone's input on this one.

I don't agree with this quote. While it is a great line from the book, I think the quote taken out of the context of the book is really dark. The quote might have been written for the antagonist or any of his followers. Personally I would hope so because the book is all about the battle between good and evil, and this quote is pretty dark and contradictory of the Harry Potter series' purpose.

 

 

"Goodness is something chosen. When a man cannot choose he ceases to be a man."

-Anthony Burgess, A Clockwork Orange

 

I really like this quote. I wonder if the author meant that goodness is something you have to choose because men are inherently evil. But then again is that contradicted by his next statement? He is saying a man who cannot choose is not a man. This could be interpreted as him saying that a man who cannot make a decision is not really a man. Comments welcome and would be highly beneficial!!!

 

"People couldn't become truly holy...unless they also have had the opportunity to be definitively wicked."

-Terry Pratchett, Good Omens

 

I completely agree with this quote. People cannot be good if they don't have the opportunity, and go against it, to be evil or just bad. Without the refusal of evil, then who is to know whether the certain person is actually good? There is no way. For a person to make a moral, good, holy- or however you want to say it- decision they have to be presented with all of the options and make the correct one for themselves.

 

-With this branch of thinking I think that people aren't inherently good or evil, it is merely a choice that everyone makes.